Stock Markets Should Be Banned - Conspiracy-Forums

**Conspirasist** · 05-30-2008, 06:57 PM

Any company in the world should not be allowed to sell off shares
of its business to stockholders.

The stock market is really an un-necessary business in the world
and the world would operate just fine without it. The people that
thrive off of the buying and selling of stocks are nothing more than
sharks trying to feed off of others good fortunes. Most of these people,
especially in wall street, have probably never worked a day in their lives.

You have the so called wizards of wall street that are making fortunes from
stocks and are living the life of riley in their mansions with swimming pools
and the whole nine yards while poor people are wondering where their next
meal is coming from.

Another problem with the stock market is the crooked business practices
that go on with it.

You all have probably already read where microsoft and rupert murdock
were trying to buy yahoo but yahoo kept turning down their offers.

Well i guess since microsoft couldn't buy it, they are going to do the next
best thing. The are having a billionaire investor Carl Icahn to buy out large
blocks of yahoo stocks and then replace all the current yahoo board members
with people of their choosing.

Icahn gets antitrust go-ahead for Yahoo stock buy: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

I see this business practice as highly illegal and i think this sort of thing should
never happen.

James Lewitzke · 05-30-2008, 09:40 PM

While I was a business major in college (have since switched to IR), I don't know every term relating in the field (aka what are Off-Shares?).

At first I thought the stock market was a reasonable way for people to invest in companies, and even give smaller ones a chance to grow. How do you propose smaller corporations to expand and grow without the stock market?

While most people have probably heard of companies like Enron and Worldcom in the news, I doubt most people really understand what went on, or how they got n trouble in the first place. They just "know" that what they did was bad business practices without giving it a second thought or research into the matter.

Concerning Microsoft, their original $45 Billion bid was to help compete against the other internet giant, Google.

I'd be curious to know what you think should be done about them; especially after the antitrust investigations into the Google-DoubleClick merger by the government.

I'm not defending the companies or anything, I'm just trying to explain the logic behind their business ventures.

**Conspirasist** · 05-30-2008, 10:44 PM

Unfortunately, I'm not a stock market wiz nor am i a business
minded person, so i wouldn't know what the solution to this
problem would be.

I believe the stock market was first created by businessmen
who's companies were going under so they hatched this plan
of selling off little shares of their companies in order to create
income. This in turn would keep the companies afloat long enough
for them to start showing a profit.

The thing is, this is now being used against companies. Especially
if companies are dumb enough to sell at least 51 percent shares
in their business. Then all people like Carl Icahn have to do is buy
that 51 percent which in turn makes them the ruling member in that
business.

I just see it as a dirty means to take over a company who's owner
doesn't want to sell.

Companies don't need the stock market to keep them going. If they
are going under then so be it. There will always be another company
to take it's place.

Make all those sharks go out and find a real job instead of living off
of someone else's profits.

James Lewitzke · 05-31-2008, 03:11 PM

Well, even if you own 51% stake in a company, you still can't "rule with an iron fist" or whatever, it still takes diplomacy and negotiation in the office.

I don't really view corporations as dictatorships, they're just doing what is necessary to survive, like any beast would do.

While the majority shareholder may be able to appoint board members, CEO's etc., within the company, he still accepts the responsibility of his actions and realizes that whatever decisions he makes, affects everyone else within the company.

The majority owner can't just "Do what he wants" because he's also responsible for the other 49% of the stockholders's money, in addition to his own.

**Conspirasist** · 05-31-2008, 03:59 PM

That may be true but you realize that company take-overs
are for the betterment of our government don't you?

Microsoft is working in the background for our government,
just like the majority of our telecoms companies are.

No disrespect intended here but your only fooling yourself
if you think otherwise.

With microsoft running the show, they will be able to implement
spy ware running in the background of your computer, relaying
every web site you visit, collect all your passwords and not to
mention that any news reported by them will be censored greatly,
just like it is on our major news channels right now.

Why do you think microsoft, for years now, has hidden database
files on your computer right now? It's not so that we don't mess
up the windows configuration or anything like that. They collect
personal information from your hard drive.

If you don't know the exact directory where these files are kept,
you will never be able to get rid of them. Even when you choose
the option of show all hidden folders and files, these hidden files
are never revealed.

If they are already doing this on your computer, just think of what
they could do once they get control of yahoo.

It won't stop there either. They will probably get google next. I'm
surprised they didn't go after it first, since it's more popular than
yahoo. I guess they want to start small and work up to the bigger
stuff.

Your entitled to your own opinion and i will respect that but this is
what i believe is happening right now.

James Lewitzke · 06-01-2008, 05:54 AM

OK, I was referring to one specific person controlling an organization, not an entire corporation itself.

Plus, running spyware on computers without consent is illegal (I think it's under the Freedom of Information Act, but I'm not 100% sure, legality isn't my specialty, so don't take my word at face value on that

).

This would get Microsoft into a lot of trouble with the law. Even if layers of corruption exist, they can still only take it so far before public outrages and demonstrations take place (via either a whistleblower or some other source for a leak), and the gov't would be forced to do something about it.

Also, one more thing I wanted to clear up, is that I'm basically playing Devil's Advocate here, I'm arguing from "a" view point, not necessarily with my own opinion

.

**Conspirasist** · 06-01-2008, 01:20 PM

OK. Sorry about that Mr. Devil's Advocate. LOL

Getting back to the spy-ware thing, this happens all the time.
Why else would computers need spy-ware removal tools if it is
illegal to place this stuff on peoples computers to begin with.

I'm sure what you say is true but this doesnt seem to stop people
from sending you this stuff anyway. They wrap this stuff up inside
a screen saver or a free program you can download. Also they have
been found in batch files and activex controls.

With all this illegal placement of spy-ware on other peoples computers,
i have yet to see any major cases where people were caught and sentenced
for their use of this stuff.

With microsoft hiding these files and spy-ware from the user, how are
we going to know we have it on our computer. I think that since they
are the pc windows makers, they probably got ways to make them
undetectable even to spy-ware removal and anti virus programs.

Getting back to yahoo, if any one person owns more than 50 percent
of any business, that makes them the chief cook and bottle washer.

Although there are other owners of stock in said company, they have
no say in how it should be run. The only thing these other share holders
are interested in is making a profit. If the other share holders happens
to be current employee's of said company, they may have the right to
make recommendations about this or that but they wont have any real
power. Why else would someone else buy over 50 percent shares in a
company if all they could do is make recommendations. They are after
controlling said company.

Although you believe yahoo would be run with diplomacy and negotiation
and your probably right about how it's suppose to be run, it just isn't
going to happen that way.

Just like our constitutional laws gives the american many freedoms but
now it is being taken away from us. It doesn't matter what is right or
wrong any more or what is legal and illegal. As long as there are
congressmen to be payed off, things will never be like they were meant
to be.

That's why i feel stocks should never be sold because said company takes
the risk of a takeover if 51 percent of the company stocks are owned by
one person.

**Barcs** · 06-03-2008, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Why do you think microsoft, for years now, has hidden database
files on your computer right now? It's not so that we don't mess
up the windows configuration or anything like that. They collect
personal information from your hard drive.

If you don't know the exact directory where these files are kept,
you will never be able to get rid of them. Even when you choose
the option of show all hidden folders and files, these hidden files
are never revealed.

If they are already doing this on your computer, just think of what
they could do once they get control of yahoo.

I fix computers for a living, and I can tell you with almost certainty that there is no hidden directory like this. An operating system cannot copy to something it cannot read. It would have surely been detected by now through another operating system like linux. If I'm wrong about this, I'd love to see your evidence towards this hidden directory. By agreeing to the EULA you pretty much allow them to do stuff like that anyway and you do not even have a choice.

As far as the stock market goes I've always been weary about the whole "buy a company up and control it" idea, but I don't think you can completely run a company. If you have a majority share you can appoint someone to the board of directors who will get a say. I do see what you're saying though. Someone with a lot of money can easily buy up a crapload of company shares and subsequently have influence on company decisions. I'm not a big fan of the stock market and it seems like a fake way to make money for companies.. but hey? Who knows?

**Conspirasist** · 06-03-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barcs

I fix computers for a living, and I can tell you with almost certainty that there is no hidden directory like this. An operating system cannot copy to something it cannot read.

For one thing, if your spyware knows the exact directory of the hidden
files, it most certainly can read and write to them.

Back when i had windows me is when i first heard about ms hidden files
so i started searching around about it. I ran across a freebie program
that ran from dos that could detect these hidden directories and files.

I had to copy this program to a floppy disk and then boot up to dos and
run this program and sure enough, there they were.

I had the option of deleting these files and i did so.

I rebooted back to windows and had no problems afterwards.

I think if you do a search on microsoft hidden files, you will find something
about it.

I now am using xp so i don't think i'd be able to get rid of these files now
since xp does not have a true dos os.

My understanding was that these files could not be found by any program
as long as windows was in use so i haven't checked recently to see if
this problem has been resolved yet.

I'm not calling you a lier. I'm just telling you my findings.

**Barcs** · 06-03-2008, 05:28 PM

Microsuck | Microsoft's Really Hidden Files

I'm guessing you're referring to this. The -s -r -h tags are nothing new. I'll have to check this out although I don't think it applies to XP. You can still do a DOS boot and view an NTFS partition if you have the right program.

I usually just partition and reformat my system once a year or so. That will definitely get rid of anything questionable on my computer.

**Conspirasist** · 06-03-2008, 05:48 PM

I don't think that was the one i saw but it is really full of information.
I don't think any of that applies to xp though.
I book marked it though.

I'm currently using Mozilla but i'm still using outlook for my email.

At least this does prove my point. Not trying to rub it in your face
but rather inform everyone that this is the practice of microsoft.

**Barcs** · 06-03-2008, 08:51 PM

I dunno. That's the only link I've seen so far on it. I wonder if there's a way to view the files and see the hidden history, because it's possible that this guy might be talking out his ass.

You should use Mozilla Thunderbird instead of Outlook. It's way better plus will alleviate the paranoia of using a Microsoft product. I use both Firefox and Thunderbird exclusively, so I'm not really worried about logging. I've heard concern about this with Vista, though.

**Conspirasist** · 06-03-2008, 09:43 PM

The only way to know for sure is if you have 98 or me. Then
you could boot up to dos and follow his directions.

The directories do exist though because i saw them myself before
i got that program to wipe them out.

I don't think someone would go through all that trouble to write up
a web page concerning hidden files and directories if it weren't true.

I didn't know about Thunderbird. I'm going to check that out. Thanks.

Here's another page i found about microsoft and the use of dirty tricks.
According to that page, before long, we are going to need the permission
of microsoft before we can access our own infomation.

It's a long read if you go straight through it. I just read selected area's
but i'll read it in detail later.

Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going.

05-30-2008, 06:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
Conspirasist Conspiracy Expert Posts: 347 Rep:	Stock Markets Should Be Banned Any company in the world should not be allowed to sell off shares of its business to stockholders. The stock market is really an un-necessary business in the world and the world would operate just fine without it. The people that thrive off of the buying and selling of stocks are nothing more than sharks trying to feed off of others good fortunes. Most of these people, especially in wall street, have probably never worked a day in their lives. You have the so called wizards of wall street that are making fortunes from stocks and are living the life of riley in their mansions with swimming pools and the whole nine yards while poor people are wondering where their next meal is coming from. Another problem with the stock market is the crooked business practices that go on with it. You all have probably already read where microsoft and rupert murdock were trying to buy yahoo but yahoo kept turning down their offers. Well i guess since microsoft couldn't buy it, they are going to do the next best thing. The are having a billionaire investor Carl Icahn to buy out large blocks of yahoo stocks and then replace all the current yahoo board members with people of their choosing. Icahn gets antitrust go-ahead for Yahoo stock buy: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance I see this business practice as highly illegal and i think this sort of thing should never happen.

05-30-2008, 09:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
James Lewitzke Administrator Recent Blog Post: Posts are Still Slow Name: James Posts: 368 Rep:	While I was a business major in college (have since switched to IR), I don't know every term relating in the field (aka what are Off-Shares?). At first I thought the stock market was a reasonable way for people to invest in companies, and even give smaller ones a chance to grow. How do you propose smaller corporations to expand and grow without the stock market? While most people have probably heard of companies like Enron and Worldcom in the news, I doubt most people really understand what went on, or how they got n trouble in the first place. They just "know" that what they did was bad business practices without giving it a second thought or research into the matter. Concerning Microsoft, their original $45 Billion bid was to help compete against the other internet giant, Google. I'd be curious to know what you think should be done about them; especially after the antitrust investigations into the Google-DoubleClick merger by the government. I'm not defending the companies or anything, I'm just trying to explain the logic behind their business ventures. __________________ Conspiracy-Forums Rules Lightningshock.com - My Blog

05-31-2008, 03:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
James Lewitzke Administrator Recent Blog Post: Posts are Still Slow Name: James Posts: 368 Rep:	Well, even if you own 51% stake in a company, you still can't "rule with an iron fist" or whatever, it still takes diplomacy and negotiation in the office. I don't really view corporations as dictatorships, they're just doing what is necessary to survive, like any beast would do. While the majority shareholder may be able to appoint board members, CEO's etc., within the company, he still accepts the responsibility of his actions and realizes that whatever decisions he makes, affects everyone else within the company. The majority owner can't just "Do what he wants" because he's also responsible for the other 49% of the stockholders's money, in addition to his own. __________________ Conspiracy-Forums Rules Lightningshock.com - My Blog

06-01-2008, 05:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
James Lewitzke Administrator Recent Blog Post: Posts are Still Slow Name: James Posts: 368 Rep:	OK, I was referring to one specific person controlling an organization, not an entire corporation itself. Plus, running spyware on computers without consent is illegal (I think it's under the Freedom of Information Act, but I'm not 100% sure, legality isn't my specialty, so don't take my word at face value on that ). This would get Microsoft into a lot of trouble with the law. Even if layers of corruption exist, they can still only take it so far before public outrages and demonstrations take place (via either a whistleblower or some other source for a leak), and the gov't would be forced to do something about it. Also, one more thing I wanted to clear up, is that I'm basically playing Devil's Advocate here, I'm arguing from "a" view point, not necessarily with my own opinion . __________________ Conspiracy-Forums Rules Lightningshock.com - My Blog

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05-30-2008, 10:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
Conspirasist Conspiracy Expert Posts: 347 Rep:	Unfortunately, I'm not a stock market wiz nor am i a business minded person, so i wouldn't know what the solution to this problem would be. I believe the stock market was first created by businessmen who's companies were going under so they hatched this plan of selling off little shares of their companies in order to create income. This in turn would keep the companies afloat long enough for them to start showing a profit. The thing is, this is now being used against companies. Especially if companies are dumb enough to sell at least 51 percent shares in their business. Then all people like Carl Icahn have to do is buy that 51 percent which in turn makes them the ruling member in that business. I just see it as a dirty means to take over a company who's owner doesn't want to sell. Companies don't need the stock market to keep them going. If they are going under then so be it. There will always be another company to take it's place. Make all those sharks go out and find a real job instead of living off of someone else's profits.

05-31-2008, 03:59 PM	#5 (permalink)
Conspirasist Conspiracy Expert Posts: 347 Rep:	That may be true but you realize that company take-overs are for the betterment of our government don't you? Microsoft is working in the background for our government, just like the majority of our telecoms companies are. No disrespect intended here but your only fooling yourself if you think otherwise. With microsoft running the show, they will be able to implement spy ware running in the background of your computer, relaying every web site you visit, collect all your passwords and not to mention that any news reported by them will be censored greatly, just like it is on our major news channels right now. Why do you think microsoft, for years now, has hidden database files on your computer right now? It's not so that we don't mess up the windows configuration or anything like that. They collect personal information from your hard drive. If you don't know the exact directory where these files are kept, you will never be able to get rid of them. Even when you choose the option of show all hidden folders and files, these hidden files are never revealed. If they are already doing this on your computer, just think of what they could do once they get control of yahoo. It won't stop there either. They will probably get google next. I'm surprised they didn't go after it first, since it's more popular than yahoo. I guess they want to start small and work up to the bigger stuff. Your entitled to your own opinion and i will respect that but this is what i believe is happening right now.

06-01-2008, 01:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
Conspirasist Conspiracy Expert Posts: 347 Rep:	OK. Sorry about that Mr. Devil's Advocate. LOL Getting back to the spy-ware thing, this happens all the time. Why else would computers need spy-ware removal tools if it is illegal to place this stuff on peoples computers to begin with. I'm sure what you say is true but this doesnt seem to stop people from sending you this stuff anyway. They wrap this stuff up inside a screen saver or a free program you can download. Also they have been found in batch files and activex controls. With all this illegal placement of spy-ware on other peoples computers, i have yet to see any major cases where people were caught and sentenced for their use of this stuff. With microsoft hiding these files and spy-ware from the user, how are we going to know we have it on our computer. I think that since they are the pc windows makers, they probably got ways to make them undetectable even to spy-ware removal and anti virus programs. Getting back to yahoo, if any one person owns more than 50 percent of any business, that makes them the chief cook and bottle washer. Although there are other owners of stock in said company, they have no say in how it should be run. The only thing these other share holders are interested in is making a profit. If the other share holders happens to be current employee's of said company, they may have the right to make recommendations about this or that but they wont have any real power. Why else would someone else buy over 50 percent shares in a company if all they could do is make recommendations. They are after controlling said company. Although you believe yahoo would be run with diplomacy and negotiation and your probably right about how it's suppose to be run, it just isn't going to happen that way. Just like our constitutional laws gives the american many freedoms but now it is being taken away from us. It doesn't matter what is right or wrong any more or what is legal and illegal. As long as there are congressmen to be payed off, things will never be like they were meant to be. That's why i feel stocks should never be sold because said company takes the risk of a takeover if 51 percent of the company stocks are owned by one person.

06-03-2008, 05:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
Barcs Conspiracy Nut Location: NJ Name: Bill Posts: 143 Rep:	Microsuck \| Microsoft's Really Hidden Files I'm guessing you're referring to this. The -s -r -h tags are nothing new. I'll have to check this out although I don't think it applies to XP. You can still do a DOS boot and view an NTFS partition if you have the right program. I usually just partition and reformat my system once a year or so. That will definitely get rid of anything questionable on my computer.

06-03-2008, 05:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
Conspirasist Conspiracy Expert Posts: 347 Rep:	I don't think that was the one i saw but it is really full of information. I don't think any of that applies to xp though. I book marked it though. I'm currently using Mozilla but i'm still using outlook for my email. At least this does prove my point. Not trying to rub it in your face but rather inform everyone that this is the practice of microsoft.

06-03-2008, 08:51 PM	#12 (permalink)
Barcs Conspiracy Nut Location: NJ Name: Bill Posts: 143 Rep:	I dunno. That's the only link I've seen so far on it. I wonder if there's a way to view the files and see the hidden history, because it's possible that this guy might be talking out his ass. You should use Mozilla Thunderbird instead of Outlook. It's way better plus will alleviate the paranoia of using a Microsoft product. I use both Firefox and Thunderbird exclusively, so I'm not really worried about logging. I've heard concern about this with Vista, though.

06-03-2008, 09:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
Conspirasist Conspiracy Expert Posts: 347 Rep:	The only way to know for sure is if you have 98 or me. Then you could boot up to dos and follow his directions. The directories do exist though because i saw them myself before i got that program to wipe them out. I don't think someone would go through all that trouble to write up a web page concerning hidden files and directories if it weren't true. I didn't know about Thunderbird. I'm going to check that out. Thanks. Here's another page i found about microsoft and the use of dirty tricks. According to that page, before long, we are going to need the permission of microsoft before we can access our own infomation. It's a long read if you go straight through it. I just read selected area's but i'll read it in detail later. Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going.