Who was behind 911?

[hamesy]

I’m personally in two minds about this. Half of me says it was Bin Laden, and the other half says it was the US government. However, I’m swaying towards the US government. Lets look at the evidence.

The New Pearl Harbour
In September 2000, a neo-conservative think tank releases their report entitled “Rebuilding America’s Defences”. In it, they declare: "the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor."
http://newamericancentury.org/Rebuil...asDefenses.pdf

$3.5 billion dollar insurance policy
24th July 2001. Larry A. Silverstein, signs a $3.2 billion dollar lease on the entire World Trade Center complex, which included a $3.5 billion dollar insurance policy specifically covering acts of terrorism.
Key Figures Of September 11 - CBS News

Were explosives used to bring down the towers?
YouTube - 9/11 Revisited: Were explosives used? - South Tower Collapse
Bush even admits there was explosives in the tower?

For example, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed described the design of plane attacks on
building inside the U.S. and how operatives were directed to carry them out. That is
valuable information for those of us who have the responsibility to protect the
American people.

He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went
off at a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping.

BBC News Reports Building 7 collapse 23 minutes before it collapses
YouTube - BBC Reports Building 7 Collapse, 23 Minutes BEFORE it Fell!

You may also want to take a look at all of the “Loose Change” movies. It describes in more detail of some of things that happened.

Your thoughts?

[James Lewitzke]

Originally Posted by hamesy

$3.5 billion dollar insurance policy
24th July 2001. Larry A. Silverstein, signs a $3.2 billion dollar lease on the entire World Trade Center complex, which included a $3.5 billion dollar insurance policy specifically covering acts of terrorism.

This fact raises interesting points of who benefited financially from 911.

Originally Posted by hamesy

You may also want to take a look at all of the “Loose Change” movies. It describes in more detail of some of things that happened.

I haven't seen the films, but I've heard much talk of them over the internet, I believe they were even mentioned on Fox News once or twice, they seem like they'd present an interesting side of the debate.

Originally Posted by hamesy

I’m personally in two minds about this. Half of me says it was Bin Laden, and the other half says it was the US government. However, I’m swaying towards the US government. Lets look at the evidence.

Personally, I don't *know* who was behind it, and I don't think we'll ever truly know in our lifetimes. But if I were to guess, I'd say neither. It'd probably be more in line with the so-called "Shadow Government", the people who really run things, behind the scenes, that would have the most influence behind the attacks.

[Dave~]

There's always been the theory that the government is behind some terrorists acts in order to keep the defense budget at a high level. There's even been a lot of movies about that for every government around the world.

There are lots of questions about the authenticity of these being terrorists attacks.

Explosives in the buildings would not be conclusive of one side or the other. If the terrorists were able to hijack planes, they should be able to plant explosives. It doesn't take a lot of high explosives to mix with jet fuel to make a very large explosion. On the other hand, if the government were responsible, it would be just as easy for the explosives to be planted.

I've seen several of the shows, read the comments and reports, and IMO, there are so many questions that can't be answered enough to conclusively determine in my mind who was at behind this atrocity, or even if both sides were behind it.

[jbjbw]

I have insurance on my home, car, motorcycle, and even my health. This doesn't mean I intend to cause harm to any of them. And to set things straight, only in extremely rare instances would a person actually profit from having to use insurance. It only helps to reduce the loss.
The towers were brought down by people who hate the USA and what it stands for. To even think the US government would be behind this is insane. It is very easy to make wild accusations. Try using a little common sense.

[Dave~]

Originally Posted by jbjbw

To even think the US government would be behind this is insane. It is very easy to make wild accusations. Try using a little common sense.

What makes it insane to think that the U.S. government could be behind it? Is it because there is no corruption in the government? (That was a little sarcasm.) What is it that makes thinking the government is not behind it "common sense"?

BTW, these are just questions for thought. They don't actually say who or what I believe about the situation. An assumption has been made that anyone that believes the government could do something bad is insane and lacks common sense.

[jbjbw]

The reason it is insane to think the government is behind 911 is the "Government" has nothing to gain from it. Does the gov. have bad people in it? Of course. Remember our gov. is " Of the people, by the people, for the people ". Does that mean it isn't flawed. Of course not. I detest Bush and his cronies for leading us into Iraq for all the wrong reasons. But it would take a traitor of extreme proportions to do 911.

[jbjbw]

If you think the government is so evil, run for office! It's your right and duty to change it from within. That is what is so great about the USA. Try doing that in China and see how long you remain out of jail.
VOTE in our elections and your voice will be heard.

[Dave~]

Originally Posted by jbjbw

The reason it is insane to think the government is behind 911 is the "Government" has nothing to gain from it. ... I detest Bush and his cronies for leading us into Iraq for all the wrong reasons. But it would take a traitor of extreme proportions to do 911.

The "Government" might not have anything to gain, if the government is an entity. But the people that make up the government might have a lot to gain from it.

You detest Bush "for leading us into Iraq for all the wrong reasons", yet you say that it's insane to think the government is behind 911? Are you saying that the government is different than the elected officials? Would it make sense that if Bush lead us wrongly that some other government official could be a traitor and do something to the U.S. that would benefit him/her? Would it be insane to think that Bush wrongly lead us then? It's the same reasoning to be able to say that one official of the government lead for the wrong reasons and another part of the government could do something else for the wrong reasons.

I would think it would be insane to say one part of the government can do something bad (Bush's leading) but yet another part can't do something bad (911).

I do agree that it would take a traitor of extreme proportions to be the cause of 911.

Originally Posted by jbjbw

If you think the government is so evil, run for office! It's your right and duty to change it from within. That is what is so great about the USA. Try doing that in China and see how long you remain out of jail.
VOTE in our elections and your voice will be heard.

On a side note, I would like to run for an office and try to change some of the things that I think is wrong in government. I just don't think many would stand with me.

[jbjbw]

Do you think a part of our government is so evil that they would kill thousands of Americans? For what reason?

[Dave~]

Since you didn't answer my question, I'll answer your question with your question.

Do you think a part of our government (Bush) is so evil that they would kill thousands of Americans (Iran, Iraq)? For what reason?

I'm not meaning for that to sound like a smart you-know-what statement, but it sounds like you're saying that one part of government can be evil and not another.

[jbjbw]

Not at all. I believe some individuals are evil. Our government is made up of individuals.
I do not believe Bush is evil. Misguided perhaps. On the whole I believe our government is trying to do the right thing for us.

[Dave~]

Originally Posted by jbjbw

On the whole I believe our government is trying to do the right thing for us.

I agree!

I don't know who was behind 911 but am more inclined to think that terrorists were behind it. I think that some of our agencies failed in preventing the atrocity that happened then, but that is another story (unless that's part of the conspiracy: to let it happen).

However, I can't make a blanket statement to say that there wasn't some government official or branch of government involved with it. I don't think there's proof enough for us that are not privy on all the facts, but there's still lots of questions that COULD point to a conspiracy.

I also think that there's profit (whether potential or incurred) in every war, conflict, terrorist act, etc. The least profit might be made by the arms dealer and the most profit might be with land/oil ownership by corporations and there's even profit with agencies maintaining their government funding (just examples).

[James Lewitzke]

Originally Posted by jbjbw

Do you think a part of our government is so evil that they would kill thousands of Americans?

Yes, if they can obviously start wars and slaughter thousands, what makes you think they value American's lives moreso than others?

Originally Posted by jbjbw

For what reason?

Money and Power (Duh )

Originally Posted by jbjbw

On the whole I believe our government is trying to do the right thing for us.

Originally Posted by Dave~

I agree!

Sorry, I have to disagree with both of you here. Some members of government may be sincere, but there are others who don't give a rat's (well, you know what) about the regular citizens, I believe many only care about themselves, or their organizations.

[Dave~]

Originally Posted by James Lewitzke

Some members of government may be sincere, but there are others who don't give a rat's (well, you know what) about the regular citizens, I believe many only care about themselves, or their organizations.

I think as a whole, the government is set up to do the best for its citizens. Then again, I agree that there are way tooooooo many political officials that are only in it for themselves.

If there's one that's in it for themselves, then that's too many. However, if "many" is less than the majority, then semantically speaking, the government is trying to do their best. If the majority is out for themselves, we're in trouble.

And may be in trouble, that's what started this whole thread about the 911 conspiracy.

James, do you think that the majority of the government officials are out for themselves regardless of what it does for or against other Americans? Actually, that question could be for anyone.

[In Lak'esh]

Originally Posted by jbjbw

I have insurance on my home, car, motorcycle, and even my health. This doesn't mean I intend to cause harm to any of them. And to set things straight, only in extremely rare instances would a person actually profit from having to use insurance. It only helps to reduce the loss.
The towers were brought down by people who hate the USA and what it stands for. To even think the US government would be behind this is insane. It is very easy to make wild accusations. Try using a little common sense.

jbjbw, are you aware of Operation Northwoods? Approved by the top Pentagon chiefs, Operation Northwoods proposed fabricating terrorism in US cities and killing innocent citizens to trick the public into supporting a war against Cuba in the early 1960s. Operation Northwoods even proposed blowing up a US ship and hijacking planes as a false pretext for war. First coming to light in the year 2000 through a Freedom of Information Act request, key excerpts from the Operation Northwoods documents are provided below.

You say it's common sense, I say it's [successful] suppression of information.

[jbjbw]

Your operation "Northwoods" never happened.

[In Lak'esh]

Originally Posted by jbjbw

Your operation "Northwoods" never happened.

Do you have a source which proves the documents / memo was fabricated?